As I child I asked why would God, creator of life make Living Beings EAT EACH OTHER to stay alive. Why would God demand you know hell before you can know heaven, pain before joy, or hate before love?
Wow, this is a punch in the face brutal real wonderful awful incredible use of the English language!
I'm so grateful for this piece.
I've been lectured so often by sanctimonius asshats...your wounding serves you Mike, you won't heal until you let it go...was just the latest. My honest wish?
I probably shouldn't say, so I won't.
I've known too many who could never heal during their lives. It was literally, truly beyond them. In one particular case a super close friend who was like that visited me after her death. She raised her arms and was lit with incredible colours. She was so beautiful, the sheer remarkable beauty of the soul. I can't forget it to this day.
I won't bullshit anyone about this suffering thing, it just sucks. I've never found it to do anything worthwhile. Maybe it can increase ones tolerance to suffering, but then it just hardens the heart and leads one to develop a black sense of humor. It takes one hell of a lot longer to walk back from this, than to walk into it.
I can only discover one thing in suffering that might be found in no other way, and that is the hopelessness, the meaninglessness, the torture that when faced honestly results in the epiphany so adroitly penned here.
It is exactly this level of devastation that I have stood in too many times, but this is the first thing Ive read that honours the raw experience without the free lecture.
And this, as fucked up as it sounds, is to me the point.
Yes this is exactly what I am pointing to. For millions of years billions of human souls.... Not to mention animal souls... All living beings suffering. What have any of us actually learned? Recently science can show that plants suffer from pain. I can't imagine what a tree being chopped up must go through. There are plenty of beautiful and joyful ways and even challenging ways to experience this material world without needing to go through so much torment. Nature itself is challenging and can be brutal. But those that rule over humanity poisoning us and starving us, imprisoning us, pitting us against each other.. The list goes on has never been about needing to learn lessons
No argument from me about this observation, Karafree.
I suppose everyone wants to imagine that all this shit has some great purpose so that it becomes more bearable, but isn't interesting that the great purpose always comes with a sales pitch?
Gotta wonder about that one. I mean, everyone has to have some money to survive now, which is such bullshit, because it really is just another form of slavery, so I'm just like everyone else in that way, but its one thing to need money, and something else to commodify every fucking thing,
On my subbie I have Gnostic on the header, which sends the Christians into a tizzy.
Well, I won't go too far into my story, except to say the Gnostic view is that there is something fundamentally fucked up about this reality, and its time to stop worshiping it.
I'm not selling anything here. I'm just pointing out that the observation that the world is fucked has been a genuine place for many people over the centuries, so understand that you're not alone.
Sorry this background is difficult, thanks for letting me know, I always have trouble reading on black backgrounds with white type, so I thought this was pleasing... don't worry about typos (what typos?), your message is completely clear!
Even we are commodities. One thing I appreciate about the Gnostics is what they say about Egregores. Thought forms, wanting us all to CONform to their programming, to be a COLLECTIVE, not individuals, not free thinkers, not unique creators and explorers, but HIVEMIND SLAVES.
Whenever we think of something, we have to, in a sense, 3rd person it, right? We have to give whatever it is a kind of a ghost existence, and this takes our attention and our time.
We have so much of this noise around us now that we, at least from what I see, fall for the shadows. I would like to think I'm beyond this, but honestly, I don't think so. I fall for this stupid shit, and most of the time its because the ghosts played me perfectly. Afterwards I look at the sophistication, at the manipulation, at the sheer cruelty of it all and I go, okay, you got me, but you don't have me.
The Thought forms rule. One of the worst of them is "YOU are bringing this upon yourself" You know this, when you describe the manipulation and the sophistication of it. Cruel is putting it lite. Every thing is about stopping us from exploring and learning who we truly are. I have a huge GRIPE with the whole EGO CONcept as well. GET RID of YOUR EGO... is another giant psyop.
I suppose what I should have said is that I don't particularly understand the hypnosis of it, the glue that keeps us fixated. I know its very real. I know when I shake off its control I am much, much freer, but I also feel the power of the fixation, the fascination of it, even as I have no desire to take part.
Ego comes from Freud. I never got Freud. Everyone thinks he was some kind of great genius contributing to mankind. Well, he told Jung he was bringing a plague to America. Do great geniuses bring fucking plagues? I guess if you follow the hypnosis they do.
Epic levels of bullshit.
Freud destroyed ever view of the self except his own. Mr. Plague should be taken out with the trash, because not only is he wrong, he's a disease by his own admission.
There is very little if no reality in the socially constructed world. I look to nature to find what is real. When I want to determine the reality in something I ask “what would the squirrel do?” 🐿️ I have no idea why a squirrel 🤣🤷♀️
LOL.. but seriously!! you are looking at a conscious being as far as I know that is not subjected to the mind control, the squirrel. Anyway, like you, I think Nature, whether we are in a simulation, has TRUTH within in it.. To copy the truth and put it into this reality we are experiencing they couldn't delete the truth completely.. Nature is the one place most of us can agree on that it gives us some kind of solace, comfort, rejuvenation, joy, calm... I have written about this in many of my posts! Nature is my Muse!
Wow. After reading this (twice) and the comments, words fail me. Going to read again and try to unpack when the 4 year old is not so distracting.
On the lighter side you mention animals and nature several times. I have an interesting story kind of related to pain. I planted 3 apple trees from bare root stock 2 winters ago. They thrived in their 1st year holding leaves on new branches well into the winter. Of courses they leaped forward with new growth this spring after I dutifully mulched and pruned them. One tree burst forth with beautiful blossoms and set a dozen apples when I was out of town. It was healthy and spectacular. Of course I dutifully removed the little perfectly formed apples. The tree went into shock and started dropping all its leaves and drying out its new twigs. I thought I’d lose it. So I asked it what the problem was because the other trees were doing good and there was no obvious signs of bugs or fungus. To my surprise the tree responded that I took her children. I have been apologizing for a week now and the die off has stopped and new growth is starting to appear. It also told me it did not like the coax cable over its canopy (it’s a mid dwarf tree). Bizarre huh?
Your experience brought tears to my eyes. I see it as confirmation of what we really are: LIFE and LOVE, and that pain and suffering were NEVER part of the Original Plan. Thank you for sharing. It may be also that it is your own deep message to yourself... Not only do those who try and rule over us hurt us with pain, they keep us from realizing our true potential. They nip us in the bud, so to speak. They want us uniform and subject to their idea of who we should be and how we should act. They implant their ideas in us, and want us to grow "their child" their idea for the their reality. We are all Unique Beings, with our own journey of creative life and living.
Yes. That is so true we are programmed from early on. Things like the apple tree always give me pause. Am I just imagining it because I want it to be true due to my programming or faulty unprogramming bias. Things you have in the back of your mind all your life. Silently questioning because it’s unlikely or rare that anyone else can empathize. Except maybe your dog.
exactly, glad you understood what I was pointing to. What matters is you felt deeply a message in your experience with the tree that sounds like truth to me!
Love it... "except maybe for your dog".. I currently have 6... they are definitely more conscious/conscientious and aware of their environment then most humans. and they LOVE genuinely
I appreciate the compliment! My dogs are some of my very favorite and trustworthy friends traversing this realm!! they tend to be honest, and loyal and so much more conscious of TRUTH than most humans! They get the best of care in my company!
Big topic. I commend you for taking it on. I'm not sure I agree with all of it, nor am I sure I disagree with any of it. I'm only sure I know I don't know. On some level, I'm ok with that.
I have enough trouble dealing with the here and now.
What I do know is that last night when one of my mamma goats followed me while I carried her two newborn kids 200 yards back to the barn from the pasture, nothing else mattered. Those are the moments I strive for.
I appreciate your comment Kyle, and even your position. It's been many years of me thinking about this, going back and forth, changing my mind over and over...Asking the big question WHY WOULD PAIN and SUFFERING be so good for me, WHEN I KNOW that I could have learned something with joy and comfort.
living in the moment is a great place to be, free to see without belief or judgment clouding your perspective.
How sweet to experience the miracle of LIFE through being with mama goat and her kids!
Just got these two posts. Seems sort of cosmic that they arrived just after reading your post. The first one is a topic I considered back in 2021. The second one I've written about several times in the past, although from a different perspective.
just now looking, the reese one makes it even more clear for me, that this whole CONcept that we are here to learn lessons is MORE MIND CONTROL... I haven't read the comments yet, one looks interesting from Nickolas Corrin.
Everything they do is about suffering. and stealing our Divine power. I will listen to the video while I make dinner thanks for sending. I have to mention that I think viruses do indeed exist. That is HOW CRISPR works.. that is how gene editing works, they use viruses as vectors to install them into organisms... That is not saying however, that we do not have power to overcome their evil programs. This world has been taken over by a parasite that is doing everything to destroy LIFE, through pain, suffering and torture they are the opposite of LIVE--- EVIL.
Asking about my thoughts is opening a can of worms:)
As you know, I'm not so sure viruses exist as we've been told. In the same way and for similar reasons, I'm not so sure DNA exists as we've been told. I had recently dropped off the fence onto the no virus side when I interviewed Dr. Tom Cowan in 2021. I told Dr. Cowan then that I thought the Wuhan gain of function story was meant to reinforce the idea that viruses exist. He agreed. He also called into question DNA, likening it to a hologram. I've since heard that from other sources. Crispr may be similar to gain of function. I've not yet sen any concrete results from it.
For both viruses and DNA we can consider the Hegelian dialect, which is a form of magic. I've written about how magic is being employed on a grand scale to deceive us. This is not new. It goes back thousands of years. The Romans, Greeks, Aztecs, Mayans... all used it.
I recently read an article about Houdini. He explained that much of what the powers that shouldn't be are doing is magic. A lot of that magic is deception which is easily done using technology. Houdini would know, he made a grand living using deception and tech.
As for your topic today, I'm ambivalent. I'm more concerned with day to day issues. I prefer to leave big topics like this to people like you:)
yes crispr is a tech that can be used like gain of function. Here is what is interesting to me, whether viruses "exist" or not there is a technology they are using to insert into out bodies that replicate our DNA, whatever DNA actually is. Once you know what a bacteriophage is you can't deny that viruses exist. The interesting thing about bacteriophages is they fight bacteria as if they were a virus. They can help us or harm us depending on what bacteria they attack. I did a post on bacteriophages versus anit biotics. wackzines use this tech to insert the virus, while they are telling us it is to help our immune systems fight the virus. But, you can simply look online for photos of viruses and you will find them., and I am not talking about computer generated images, CGI.
Terrain and Germ theories are not mutually exclusive, both play a part in our health.
Their Magic. and although I didn't mention the word magic in my post, it is exactly what I am pointing to in the sense of deception as to what this reality is about, why we are here, our true power, and how they mind control us with fear programming, and having us believe that we need to go through suffering and pain to grow, and earn our Spiritual Higher place.
Yes, funny, asking your thoughts is like opening a can of worms. I appreciate your humor, and your sincerity. You handle some topics I am not able to manage, like energy weapon attacks, but I am glad you can figure those things out!
An insider said that there is no difference between stage magic and Black Magicks as both use ILLUSION to manipulate their target. How much more 'magical' could it be than to control an entire population with the mere suggestion of words (spellworks)?
Interesting response. Houdini life story always fascinated me. He was obsessed with finding what was beyond this realm. At one point he became hated by every Psychic medium who was trying to make a living contacting the other realm. In his quest to figure out who could literally open a portal in the other dimension he only found lies.
So perhaps the suffering to learn something through a life and another one we will never have a memory is a the lie necessary to cover a grim reality.
yes, deep, difficult and mysterious. As I just answered above to Kyle, This world is run on mind controlling us to perceive what the controllers want us to see and beLIEve. The more they can make us beLIEve in suffering, the more we accept our circumstances.
Excellent observations! You know my stance, just passing thru. .... this evil energy looshing farm of horrors where everything is eat or be eaten. You PAY (attention) with your LIFE! When you get to die, it's Not over....we are energy trapped in biological meatsuits .... energy never dies, it just transmutes.
You know it! You said in a few sentences what i was pointing to in 100. I think tho that we are way more then these avatars.but we are being held captive by the coding of the avatar
Devil's Ass Kicker here (I'd never advocate Le Bastardo).
My view is that our Host (that is what I call our bodies) are the most important thing and if there were any pillow-sitting New Age bullshit LESSON to learn it is: How we treat the bodies we are in (INCLUDING NOT CALLING THEM THE DEGRADING PHRASE: MEAT SUIT {and who the fuck but illuminati scum would have introduced that sick thought?}) is the ONLY THING THAT MATTERS because our bodies are a microcosm/macrocosm equivalence for how we treat others and the physical world.
Honor the host and you wouldn't poison your land and crops with chemicals.
Honor the host and you wouldn't seek out ways to justify suffering because you wouldn't seek out suffering yourself or inflict it on others.
early 12c., "small monastery, subordinate monastery" (from Medieval Latin in this sense), later "small room for a monk or a nun in a monastic establishment; a hermit's dwelling" (c. 1300), from Latin cella "small room, store room, hut," related to Latin celare "to hide, conceal" (from PIE root *kel- (1) "to cover, conceal, save").
From "monastic room" the sense was extended to "prison room" (1722). The word was used in 14c., figuratively, of brain "compartments" as the abode of some faculty; it was used in biology by 17c. of various cavities (wood structure, segments of fruit, bee combs), gradually focusing to the modern sense of "basic structure of all living organisms" (which OED dates to 1845).
Electric battery sense is from 1828, based on the "compartments" in very early types. The meaning "small group of people working within a larger organization" is from 1925. Cell-body is from 1851, cell-division from 1846, cell-membrane from 1837 (cellular membrane is by 1732), cell wall is attested from 1842.
WHERE would those intangibles manifest and how could they interact with anything else if not in this physical plane?
In order to get control of this situation we MUST have precise language that we understand and that makes sense, not just adopt words like meatsuit, light, energy, electricity, consciousness.
An electric eel can generate 600 volts of shock.
The calcualtions I have seen of electrical potential from grounded feet to the nose on the average human is 600 volts.
Why can't we shocke the Illuminutty into another dimension?
Meatsuit defect?
or have they PURPOSELY SHORT CIRCUITED US? (The correct phrase is open circuit).
If we were 'light' and the universe was nothing but light, then what could light do in a sea of light? What purpose would it serve and how could you differentiate YOUR light from any other light? What if you didn't like the frequency of the other light?
Same problem - different dimension.
We've got to get to the basics.
We have to know more about what might be beyond the physical before we are so ready to abandon the physical just because Evil turned it against us.
What if the fuckers are already on the Other Side ready to turn Light into a Weapon?
I do think that honoring the body is key to living in this reality. Avatar to me is the word I use to describe the ingenious creation that houses Who we are. It is this Avatar that those who want to destroy focus on, in trying to understand it, to manipulate it, to break it, to completely control it. While I think this about the AVATAR I also think that who we truly are is using this avatar as it's ship, vessel, to navigate through this reality.
What you are highlighting for us to see is THEIR FOCUS !
If THEY are so bent on keeping our bodies broken and sick and with it our minds (Candace Pert: the BODY is the subconscious mind {I started to type: unconscious again...}) then it is essential that we pay attention to the Host. I use host as the word where someone is taking care of guests rather than host to parasites. Avatar for me has a game-play stain to it but I understand what you are saying based on the Avatars of Krishna, etc.
In that case it would be the housing/host/ SHIP that carries THE GOD.
The Hindi bow "to the god within".
My insistance on focusing on the host is, because, well, I lived in pure physical Hell for most of my life, but as your analogy shows WITHOUT THE SHIP THE FRAGILE ENTITY WOULD BE ADRIFT AT SEA AND AT THE MERCY OF WIND AND WAVES.
That would mean that the ship is pretty damned important.
Yes!,,, I am using AVATAR as was described by the Ancient... and so therefore, without the AVATAR in perfect condition to explore this world We the passenger in the AVATAR are compromised.
I HEAR what you're saying. However, as spiritual beings I believe the carcass we are encased in is the cage for our light /aura/spirit. To me, a cage is a prison CELL. add the light & you have a prism cell.
If the universe is inside us (Micro) then the macro must be suffering as well.
So honoring the host WHILE being poisoned like cockroaches is proving difficult when you get trapped in a loop of trying to make a prison break from the "host" in hell. I don't justify suffering OR inflict it upon others. I'm just doing my "Time".. We are all trapped in this limited-time dimension. If I were feeling well, I may have different thoughts.. Being UNwell makes you traverse down deep dark holes. Although being WELL, gives the illusion of rosy red sunglasses..
What is a Spirit? I ask in the essay why would a Spirit need to forget itself.. HOW would that actually be possible? Do you forget yourself? Can you forget yourself? Only if the Avatar has brain damage.. and then what? Where is Spirit when the brain is damaged?
You always answer your own questions as you turn the rubics cube in your mind.
There is a legend that the three years that the "J"esus dropped off the map, he went to China to learn Chi-Gong in order to perform all of the 'miracles'.
Chi-Gong masters have been measured to project their energy 10-feet across a room, they can lift and manipulate the limbs of someone who is paralyzed. The Dim Mak (Death Touch) is real whether performed with a physical strike or Chi.
The human body used to be able to perform insane physical near-impossibilities before the magnetic flux of the planet dropped incredibly low and we were poisoned.
So the 'prison' was never originally a prison, it was made into it.
I had been sick all of my life. When I finally defeated one of those demons, my goal has been to destroy all of them with mere thought.
This quantum weirdness is compounded when the concept of nonlocality is combined with string theory. One of the weird results of this combination is the holographic principle. The holographic principle states that the information that determines the behavior of the entire universe works-from the Big Bang to the present-is the result of information existing outside the universe itself. Put yet another way, light energy, interacting with holographic information in a nonlocal two-dimensional realm, results in the continuous holographic projection of the colossal three dimensional world that we call the universe. .......
An end result, but as long as the possbility exists to either 'choose' to come back, or to be tricked into coming back, or some sick inevitibility of coming back programmed into the Game, then the Goal - as I see it - is to destroy the Game so that is never an option.
sounds like Indigo Girls were thinking like me, thanks for sharing the lyrics.. It seems like musicians and artists in general, are inspired by the big questions of this reality
I think there are two types of suffering, that which we take on willingly and that which is thrust upon us by outside forces. I agree that the latter type of suffering is unnecessary, it is a suffering that is created by nefarious actors looking to perpetrate crimes upon humanity. Life is difficult enough without having to deal with bad actors looking to ruin the party.
In regards to the suffering we take on willingly for growth, that is another matter. For whatever reason, this world seems to be designed in such a way that the path to growth often comes through pushing yourself out of your comfort zone in pursuit of a greater reward at the end. I have no problem with this, other than that it is really hard and I think we'd all like to have an 'easy' button sometimes. But there is an undeniable intrinsic value in taking on scary and difficult challenges and coming out the other side stronger.
As an individual, there is a renewed sense of strength and confidence that you feel when you meet a challenge head on. If you look at that on a cosmic level, perhaps the human race, as a whole, is challenged with taking on these monumental tasks over generations in order to grow on a scale that we cannot begin to comprehend.
In such a situation, our personal suffering may indeed seem very unnecessary as we cannot fathom the value of it in the big picture.
Thank you Frater seamus for your comment and thoughts on this. I do agree, that there is suffering that we take on willingly, I know that I appreciate some challenges in life, I want to solve some puzzles, and be a detective, and help someone who is hurting, and I may certainly get hurt in the process. I addressed this to some degree. I think there is a thrill, or a feeling of accomplishment too when we suffer through a situation that we are not comfortable with but learn to command. I feel strongly too that there is definitely suffering forced upon all living beings that is nefarious, I can't help but include all life in noticing this. Think of the factory farmed animals, the devastation to the plants and environment, the abuse of pets, the endless, wars.. well I know you already know...
What living being in this Hell dimension would CHOOSE to do that, whether they were exquated a non-sentient animal or the falsely-boasting Man that thinks it is at the top of the food chain that ends up humus in the clutches of supposedly non-sentient mold?
None.
When my mother's kidneys were caused to fail by nefarious forces at work long before we were born, I took on the path of suffering not as a noble gesture or a method for the bullshit nonsense idea of 'personal growth' but because I fully invested myself into a WAR that was never overtly declared but has been raging for a bare minimum of 5784 years. So the only 'choice' was to throw-in as a combatant, not with the enthusiasm of an amusement part rider but with the full knowledge and intent that anything that I did to defeat the ENEMY was REQUIRED in order to preserve my mother's and my own life in this sickass video game; or... to do nothing like a useless lump of protoplasm and let Evil reign.
So it was never about 'choosing' to 'take on suffering' but an aggressive action to give the enemy what they inflicted on us with interest.
Dan McCarthy always taught that ANY forced choice is EVIL.
To rephrase this situation again (you have to repeat your message at least 3-5 times) I did not WILLINGLY take on suffering, I ENTHUSIASTICALLY jumped into the middle of a firefight in the greatest war in the history of bipedal apes against unfathomable power.
Period.
All other characterizations of the situation are delusion and self-hypnosis and hysterical blindness in order to take the edge off of the terror that I clearly expose in words every chance I get. Which is why I came up with my maxim: "If you say it like it is - then there is no debate."
I thought I pointed to this in my essay. But, here is an example, everyday there are dogs dumped in parks and neighborhoods around here, the owners decided that their "pet" was worthless to them. The dog comes into my yard, and WTF, now I have to take it in and care for it.. I CAN'T NOT do something to help this poor creature... I have JUST chosen to suffer the consequences of this shitshow. I have chosen to care for this neglected and abused animal, I have chosen to give up my freedoms, my income and my home and my time and .... SO I chose to take on this challenge,,, and I am not complaining, this is an example.. I don't have to do this, put myself through this... but I do. Maybe I too am jumping into the fire to save the dignity and love I see in these animals.. it makes me cry!
You know I respect you - therefore I'm not busting your chops when I say:
Be careful with your language:
"I CAN'T NOT do something..."
followed by:
"I don't have to do this..."
Semantically and philosophically and practically those are two different conditions.
One is volitional, the other is survival.
Where my family is concerned it will always be a survival action.
For anything else it will be based on weighing the pros/cons, risks/benefits to see if I WANT to invest in something. That brings us to the two words that define my life:
NEEDS always take precidence over WANTS.
So, to cordially re-examine the situation that you presented ONLY YOU can decide and define if YOU "NEED" to rescue those dogs or you simply WANT to.
I can't impose my values on you or hold you to my standards because of that nifty thing of them being YOUR NEEDs and YOUR WANTs.
Mine differ from yours but that is because they are unique to me.
The only value judgment is what you make for yourself. Just because I would not do what you do, I will not condemn you or expect you to conform to my NEEDS/WANTS because THAT is the very thing that the Controllers inflict on us.
what drives us to want to SELF FLAGELLATE? WHAT DRIVES US TO BE WILLING TO NEED to do something that ends up controlling us. See you are getting at what I am trying to point out.. when I ask do we chose anything in this life? do we have a choice? DO WE HAVE FREE WILL... THERE I SAID IT. Do I save the dogs because it makes me feel better? do I do it because it's written in my script? do I do it because WHY??? because I can't NOT do it? HOW many times have I seen the dogs run around in front of my house and closed my blinds, left the house for the day only to find them sleeping on my porch, or a neighbor texting me several times to help catch them... What is conspiring here???
What fucking lesson is in this? What is it that makes us attach to certain purposes in life? Why do we feel destined to defend something, or create something or expose something, or hate something, or love something, or seek something?
You had to bring up the whipping --- didn't you....?
Martin Luther started as a CATHOLIC PRIEST.
Now Catholics are an interesting animal in that the Jesuits went prospecting around the world trying to steal religious secrets and relics everywhere they went. It is part of Asian martial arts training to work up from light sandbags, to pebbles, to rocks used to beat the body to build up fascia in order to store chi and repel blows. As the training progresses bamboo rods and then metal rods are used so that you can withstand the blows of weapons.
NEVER BREAKING THE SKIN OR IT SLOWS OR STOPS TRAINING.
The goofy Catholic Monks were SELF-FLAGGELATING over invented sins (original or not) as a way of punishing themselves for Wrong Think. They had no idea that the ideas stolen from the Chinee Monks was to develope martial arts POWER.
So, Luther beat himself bloody and threw himself in the snow until his health failed and he said "What the fuck am I doing?" Except in German.
Thus the PROTEST ANT movement was born.
Can you see how, in Continuum, I weave a theme of goofy gonads who are tricked into harming themselves (for "good") when all of this should have been developing martial skills to dispatch The Evil Enemy?
You can see this kind of sickness in the Dan Brown movie Angels and Demons. There was a flagellate who was a key player in the plot of that movie. None of it leads to anything 'good'.
Flash Forward (or backward?) to the Buddhists who like the Hindi and the Yahoodi hold to reincarnation. So they would say that the dogs must have been souls you have interacted with in the Multiverse for countless eons so you are drawn to help them like a Bodhisatva just as they are drawn to you because it is your collective destiny.
Taoists have a version of the Prime Directive where "Do Nothing" exempts them from doing anything but sitting on a bun and contemplating their navel lint while trying to cultivate a Chi orgasm by circulating energy through their motionless bodies.
So many flavors of religion to choose from.
I'll tell you the lesson that I learned in all of my sentence here in Hell:
Hate is more powerful than Love.
To Destroy is infinitely easier than to Create.
It takes enormous, unceasing energy to create, build, fix, but one tiny match to lite a forest. ( I know you like trees).
So why do we push the stone up the hill only for it to roll back down?
BECAUSE IT'S THERE!
No. Because in all of eternity no one ever stopped to break the stone into dust.
Wonderful topic of discussion. This can take us to many paths no?
Learning the lesson from suffering is especially prominent in Christianity and it shaped the entire narrative of the past 2000 years left and right. And may be there are pre-christian cultures and others that pushed it but that is more focused on teaching discipline instead. I guess this is a broad topic too, because somethings in life do not teach lessons at all, quite the opposite they create monsters instead. Just like you said Kara……what the sexually abused child can learn from this? That is an example of horrific lesson right? On the other hand perhaps some light “suffering” could help to shape up an individual character toward certain disciplines in life or appreciate a way of life?
When I used to run marathons and train pounding miles after miles, people asked me often why would I want to put my body through that “suffering”. Well that is a good question…..but I remember that all that training got me to appreciate other simple things in life because it placed life on a different perspective.
Coming back from a 10 miles run in the cold made me really appreciate the warm shower and a warm house and all around that I was fortunate I could do that compared to those who could not because they had health or mobility issues. Appreciation for life after suffering? It gave things we get for granted in life a special value.
That is much different of course than tragedies life has for many that happen often to rule our lives. What a person is suppose to learn from being raped for example?
It is definitely a control narrative that puts us in a special place. We are set in place in a non quantifiable time zone (our life) of ACCEPTANCE.
Yes I see many paths coming into view as I read responses. Thank you for your imput and observations about life, especially the cruelest supposed lessons. I feel very strongly as you mentioned that this is a control narrative, inducing tremendous fear, and having us beLIEve that we are weak, and very bad naturally. I wonder at this point if the scales were balanced and life was more harmonious would humans Naturally choose paths towards imbalance or would we start thriving.. big question. I feel most of the imbalance and pain is forced upon us causing all the disharmony and suffering in life.
may I ask your thoughts on who we are that we need to learn and grow, Why would we be tested, especially in the cruelest of ways? thanks for your comment
that is far too big an answer. if i reduce it down near to absurdity, i’d say it has to do with spiritual evolution. in some very ancient faiths, it was said in the world before this, that emotions energy in motion were very different, less intense and easier to manage, here for example we are to learn to manage our emotions. if we pass this test, we can go on.
He summed it up eloquently almost 2300 years ago, yet somehow those who manipulate have still got most of us confused and beLIEving in this superior being. I guess they don't teach philosophy in Theology school. they tell us things like ,, Define Good? They point to perspective and how things are relative... that it is our own perception that is making us see evil in this world.
Voltaire said: You MUST bet - you are in the Game.
His dilemma was that he was convinced that God was a trickster bad ass. But the options were: eternity in Hell or eternity with a trickster badass, so he came down on the side of God.
The Gnostics said that what was called Yawveh is the chief Archon Yaaldabaoth = The Child of Kaos that is a demented alien mind parasite.
Voltaire (no doubt) was initiated in the Mysteries which is why his conclusion was so close to the gnostics.
But when you consider what I was just thinking about yesterday: And on the 7th Day God Rested - we have a similiar mythos in the Olympian Gods that needed Ambrosia and Nectar and did get tired and did get old.
So, in the words of Arnold Black Mule Driver from the movie Predator:
"If it bleeds - it can be killed."
My version runs like this: If it is a trickster parasite = Kyll it!
Something I haven't done yet... LOL... except that this is the goal NOW. to KNOW what we are going to do, and think, in every moment. They've been training us up for this all along. perfect mind controlled servants.
The Buddhamind is in The Moment. Because the past is gone and the future hasn't arrived. I spend nearly ALL of my time in the future referenced from the past because otherwise there is no SURVIVAL in the now.
Mistakes and successes of the past are our foundation for what we do next or decisions that we make in the now to let us get through this episode of the movie CUBE without being turned into fertilizer.
A Flatworm has no capacity to learn it only reacts to stimulus.
You can observe flatworms in their natural habitat on a recliner sipping a beer and eating a pizza in front of the superbowl game.
M*A*S*H television show was quite popular. It was designed for one purpose alone: to instill a sense that SUFFERING IS NOBLE.
It is the savior myth.
Of course there is always the cruel trick: You CAN'T pay for your own sins so someone or something has to do it for you but you sure can be made to regret those sins that have supposedly been paid for.
Little Known Facts: Fresh manure is full of pathogens and can BURN plants if you put it directly on them. Manure HAS to be PROPERLY composted, brought up to a high internal temperature so kill the parasites and other bugs and break down the ammonia that can poison your plants.
NOTHING on this planet is EVER what it seems or has been portrayed to be.
On the flip side:
Left in a field for some time splats of cow manure can become as hard as a dinner plate to be used for hours of fun by low I.Q. farm dwellers as frisbees.
Wow—you really asked the right questions here, and poked a hole in just about every half-baked explanation for what our ‘purpose’ for living could be.
Like all great pieces of writing, I’m left with more questions than answers (about the world around me, of course—you made your point very clearly). Thank you for writing this.
I just had to laugh... thank you.. isn't that the truth.. the more we poke the more we come up with WHAT???... from some of the responses... I have another post brewing.. as all thinkers do eh? Thank you Melissa!!
What makes us so unique to be configured as we are. Our role vs plants and animals, and inanimate objects for that matter. All on this earth, even corporal beings off this earth have roles. Perhaps we are the hands of the Creator. Collective energy necessary to manipulate the physical world. To what ends? As you ask. Why?
It’s a personal journey. Each entity is faced with unique challenges of its role and environment. Each response selects a different course which is either correct or needing further correction. And how would we know to correct without some form of feedback? Is that pain or tragedy in extreme situations?
I’ve pondered this stuff my entire life. I’ve even questioned the Creator but I think I’ve had enough experiences now to know that there is organization and communication guided by something not adequately defined by our human frame of reference. Call it what you will. My sister calls it God. She makes a compelling case based on here life choices and experience. And I’m ok with that. I made my own choices based on feeling and intuition early in life. Always listening, studying, observing the various feedbacks I received due to my actions. Adjusting accordingly. As I aged my thoughts sought validation in the physical realm of science and engineering. Working on machines of immense power for both good and bad. Dual use technology so to say. Technology I enabled but did not have any control of its end use. Always questioning why and knowing there was some purpose to me that was not being fulfilled by those wondrous machines. But what?
Seeking purpose was rekindled when I dealt with cancer at mid-life. After that experience I knew I had not found my purpose yet. But then I also realized I may never truly find the real reason. It may be that my mere presence has affected or enabled some action or entity to fulfill its role. Collective action for whatever purpose. And I guess as long as I continue to be driven to find purpose and act in a helpful non-ego driven manner, able to impart insight and wisdom on those I encounter, then that may be enough. A time here not wasted. And I’m ok with that too.
thank you for sharing a bit of your life story Mike, and your struggles and your intuitive ability or even your struggles to come to terms. I agree with you that there is something more to life and us then just randomness and purposelessness. I agree that intuitively we KNOW when something is right and something is not right. This is the exact reason why for me suffering is not noble or necessary for growth. My thoughts and my observations lead to a force that is beyond reasonable, is working here to keep us from our Truth and our possibility. As I stated in the essay, there is a difference between overcoming obstacles and dealing with cause and effect, there is suffering that just comes with the territory. Then there is another kind of suffering that seems to purposefully be inflicted on all life. This is what I am pointing to, this is what I want to come to terms with. Why does disease of the magnitude of cancer have to be a lesson for learning? I wish you or anyone else could have been spared that, and I commend you for your efforts to overcome it. My brother and my mother in law both lost the battle, To me both were amazing people in this world, they were gifts in my life.. I wrote about my brother... maybe I will post it, I can't imagine what a little child has done to deal with these kinds of suffering... and the parents and loved ones in their life.. I think you have said something really wonderful actually in your thought that your mere presence was all that was needed to make a difference in this world. I know that is the case with my brother and my Mother in law! The best to you! Thanks for sharing!
True that pain and suffering is encountered in the natural progression of life. Kind of comes with the territory. However I reject the idea that it is necessary as prescribed by any religion or societal dictate. These are nothing more than manmade interpretations for control and power. I think we can minimize through intuition, alertness, selflessness, aware learning, but you ask an important question that would call to question what we are often led to believe. Why does it take unknown eons of rebirth to figure out? It’s a question deeper than here’s your spiritual and material construct as best as we are able to intuit individually or learn from ancient texts or wisemen. Makes you question absolutely everything. And I mean absolutely everything.
My materially trained mind would surmise that the Creator is infinity and you can never attain infinity. No matter how hard or how long you try. But Pareto would say we can get substantially there without infinite power and wisdom. But to your question again, are there entities that may go the extra effort to get closer to the Creator? Probably. But I’m open to suggestion.
Enjoy your holiday. BTW Jackson Brown Running On Empty is a go to album if I’m feeling nostalgic for my college days. When I was younger I couldn’t wait to get older. But I always bristle when someone calls me sir because I still feel young. Despite my declining physical strength, the only thing that makes me feel old is trying to understand current generation thinking and why they act as they do and come to such ridiculous conclusions. Just reinforces that I am from another era that has passed and they’re going to have to relearn past truisms in their own way. So back to suffering again.
Sorry responding so late, I do not get notifications, and I just saw this!
Yes, that is my stance, that suffering is not necessary to learn lessons or to grow, especially not under the circumstances dealt to us in this world, by governments (govern the mind) and religion. I do question absolutely everything! MOre to come, as I find a way to communicate my thoughts. Thank you for your participation and comments on this subject! Oh and Mike, yes, I love that album, and me too, listening brings me back to college days... and actually High school too. I not only feel young. I am still that young and enthusiastic, so I thought, free spirit, wanting to explore. Hey I can still climb mts and last summer I built a pergola from scratch, my own design, cutting all the pieces and cementing, and building the deck... maybe I'll share that next on a lighter post!
Wow, this is a punch in the face brutal real wonderful awful incredible use of the English language!
I'm so grateful for this piece.
I've been lectured so often by sanctimonius asshats...your wounding serves you Mike, you won't heal until you let it go...was just the latest. My honest wish?
I probably shouldn't say, so I won't.
I've known too many who could never heal during their lives. It was literally, truly beyond them. In one particular case a super close friend who was like that visited me after her death. She raised her arms and was lit with incredible colours. She was so beautiful, the sheer remarkable beauty of the soul. I can't forget it to this day.
I won't bullshit anyone about this suffering thing, it just sucks. I've never found it to do anything worthwhile. Maybe it can increase ones tolerance to suffering, but then it just hardens the heart and leads one to develop a black sense of humor. It takes one hell of a lot longer to walk back from this, than to walk into it.
I can only discover one thing in suffering that might be found in no other way, and that is the hopelessness, the meaninglessness, the torture that when faced honestly results in the epiphany so adroitly penned here.
It is exactly this level of devastation that I have stood in too many times, but this is the first thing Ive read that honours the raw experience without the free lecture.
And this, as fucked up as it sounds, is to me the point.
The point is that it simply is life.
It isnt fair.
It fully sucks.
It serves no higher entity.
It isn't a doorway to ones renaissance.
It just fucking is.
Life is just like this.
Period.
Yes this is exactly what I am pointing to. For millions of years billions of human souls.... Not to mention animal souls... All living beings suffering. What have any of us actually learned? Recently science can show that plants suffer from pain. I can't imagine what a tree being chopped up must go through. There are plenty of beautiful and joyful ways and even challenging ways to experience this material world without needing to go through so much torment. Nature itself is challenging and can be brutal. But those that rule over humanity poisoning us and starving us, imprisoning us, pitting us against each other.. The list goes on has never been about needing to learn lessons
No argument from me about this observation, Karafree.
I suppose everyone wants to imagine that all this shit has some great purpose so that it becomes more bearable, but isn't interesting that the great purpose always comes with a sales pitch?
Gotta wonder about that one. I mean, everyone has to have some money to survive now, which is such bullshit, because it really is just another form of slavery, so I'm just like everyone else in that way, but its one thing to need money, and something else to commodify every fucking thing,
On my subbie I have Gnostic on the header, which sends the Christians into a tizzy.
Well, I won't go too far into my story, except to say the Gnostic view is that there is something fundamentally fucked up about this reality, and its time to stop worshiping it.
I'm not selling anything here. I'm just pointing out that the observation that the world is fucked has been a genuine place for many people over the centuries, so understand that you're not alone.
Sorry for all the typos, Its really hard for me to see what I write with the white on blue. Thanks for an essay that really echoed in my heart!
Sorry this background is difficult, thanks for letting me know, I always have trouble reading on black backgrounds with white type, so I thought this was pleasing... don't worry about typos (what typos?), your message is completely clear!
Even we are commodities. One thing I appreciate about the Gnostics is what they say about Egregores. Thought forms, wanting us all to CONform to their programming, to be a COLLECTIVE, not individuals, not free thinkers, not unique creators and explorers, but HIVEMIND SLAVES.
Whenever we think of something, we have to, in a sense, 3rd person it, right? We have to give whatever it is a kind of a ghost existence, and this takes our attention and our time.
We have so much of this noise around us now that we, at least from what I see, fall for the shadows. I would like to think I'm beyond this, but honestly, I don't think so. I fall for this stupid shit, and most of the time its because the ghosts played me perfectly. Afterwards I look at the sophistication, at the manipulation, at the sheer cruelty of it all and I go, okay, you got me, but you don't have me.
So, I wonder about this egregore thing, Karafree.
The Thought forms rule. One of the worst of them is "YOU are bringing this upon yourself" You know this, when you describe the manipulation and the sophistication of it. Cruel is putting it lite. Every thing is about stopping us from exploring and learning who we truly are. I have a huge GRIPE with the whole EGO CONcept as well. GET RID of YOUR EGO... is another giant psyop.
Maybe I could have put it into clearer terms.
I suppose what I should have said is that I don't particularly understand the hypnosis of it, the glue that keeps us fixated. I know its very real. I know when I shake off its control I am much, much freer, but I also feel the power of the fixation, the fascination of it, even as I have no desire to take part.
Ego comes from Freud. I never got Freud. Everyone thinks he was some kind of great genius contributing to mankind. Well, he told Jung he was bringing a plague to America. Do great geniuses bring fucking plagues? I guess if you follow the hypnosis they do.
Epic levels of bullshit.
Freud destroyed ever view of the self except his own. Mr. Plague should be taken out with the trash, because not only is he wrong, he's a disease by his own admission.
There is very little if no reality in the socially constructed world. I look to nature to find what is real. When I want to determine the reality in something I ask “what would the squirrel do?” 🐿️ I have no idea why a squirrel 🤣🤷♀️
LOL.. but seriously!! you are looking at a conscious being as far as I know that is not subjected to the mind control, the squirrel. Anyway, like you, I think Nature, whether we are in a simulation, has TRUTH within in it.. To copy the truth and put it into this reality we are experiencing they couldn't delete the truth completely.. Nature is the one place most of us can agree on that it gives us some kind of solace, comfort, rejuvenation, joy, calm... I have written about this in many of my posts! Nature is my Muse!
you might like this, a response to my post. no one can say it like he can!
https://generalportal55.substack.com/p/stockholm-of-suffering?utm_source=post-email-title&publication_id=1703191&post_id=144963909&utm_campaign=email-post-title&isFreemail=true&r=1zh5ag&triedRedirect=true&utm_medium=email
Wow. After reading this (twice) and the comments, words fail me. Going to read again and try to unpack when the 4 year old is not so distracting.
On the lighter side you mention animals and nature several times. I have an interesting story kind of related to pain. I planted 3 apple trees from bare root stock 2 winters ago. They thrived in their 1st year holding leaves on new branches well into the winter. Of courses they leaped forward with new growth this spring after I dutifully mulched and pruned them. One tree burst forth with beautiful blossoms and set a dozen apples when I was out of town. It was healthy and spectacular. Of course I dutifully removed the little perfectly formed apples. The tree went into shock and started dropping all its leaves and drying out its new twigs. I thought I’d lose it. So I asked it what the problem was because the other trees were doing good and there was no obvious signs of bugs or fungus. To my surprise the tree responded that I took her children. I have been apologizing for a week now and the die off has stopped and new growth is starting to appear. It also told me it did not like the coax cable over its canopy (it’s a mid dwarf tree). Bizarre huh?
Your experience brought tears to my eyes. I see it as confirmation of what we really are: LIFE and LOVE, and that pain and suffering were NEVER part of the Original Plan. Thank you for sharing. It may be also that it is your own deep message to yourself... Not only do those who try and rule over us hurt us with pain, they keep us from realizing our true potential. They nip us in the bud, so to speak. They want us uniform and subject to their idea of who we should be and how we should act. They implant their ideas in us, and want us to grow "their child" their idea for the their reality. We are all Unique Beings, with our own journey of creative life and living.
Yes. That is so true we are programmed from early on. Things like the apple tree always give me pause. Am I just imagining it because I want it to be true due to my programming or faulty unprogramming bias. Things you have in the back of your mind all your life. Silently questioning because it’s unlikely or rare that anyone else can empathize. Except maybe your dog.
exactly, glad you understood what I was pointing to. What matters is you felt deeply a message in your experience with the tree that sounds like truth to me!
Love it... "except maybe for your dog".. I currently have 6... they are definitely more conscious/conscientious and aware of their environment then most humans. and they LOVE genuinely
I appreciate the compliment! My dogs are some of my very favorite and trustworthy friends traversing this realm!! they tend to be honest, and loyal and so much more conscious of TRUTH than most humans! They get the best of care in my company!
Big topic. I commend you for taking it on. I'm not sure I agree with all of it, nor am I sure I disagree with any of it. I'm only sure I know I don't know. On some level, I'm ok with that.
I have enough trouble dealing with the here and now.
What I do know is that last night when one of my mamma goats followed me while I carried her two newborn kids 200 yards back to the barn from the pasture, nothing else mattered. Those are the moments I strive for.
I appreciate your comment Kyle, and even your position. It's been many years of me thinking about this, going back and forth, changing my mind over and over...Asking the big question WHY WOULD PAIN and SUFFERING be so good for me, WHEN I KNOW that I could have learned something with joy and comfort.
living in the moment is a great place to be, free to see without belief or judgment clouding your perspective.
How sweet to experience the miracle of LIFE through being with mama goat and her kids!
Just got these two posts. Seems sort of cosmic that they arrived just after reading your post. The first one is a topic I considered back in 2021. The second one I've written about several times in the past, although from a different perspective.
https://gregreese.substack.com/p/destroying-our-connection-to-god?initial_medium=video
https://anamihalceamdphd.substack.com/p/spiritual-lucidity-in-times-of-global?publication_id=956088&post_id=144847627&r=c1sts&triedRedirect=true&utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email&initial_medium=video
just now looking, the reese one makes it even more clear for me, that this whole CONcept that we are here to learn lessons is MORE MIND CONTROL... I haven't read the comments yet, one looks interesting from Nickolas Corrin.
Everything they do is about suffering. and stealing our Divine power. I will listen to the video while I make dinner thanks for sending. I have to mention that I think viruses do indeed exist. That is HOW CRISPR works.. that is how gene editing works, they use viruses as vectors to install them into organisms... That is not saying however, that we do not have power to overcome their evil programs. This world has been taken over by a parasite that is doing everything to destroy LIFE, through pain, suffering and torture they are the opposite of LIVE--- EVIL.
terra forming this reality for their benefit.
BUT!!! What are your thoughts? on these posts?
Asking about my thoughts is opening a can of worms:)
As you know, I'm not so sure viruses exist as we've been told. In the same way and for similar reasons, I'm not so sure DNA exists as we've been told. I had recently dropped off the fence onto the no virus side when I interviewed Dr. Tom Cowan in 2021. I told Dr. Cowan then that I thought the Wuhan gain of function story was meant to reinforce the idea that viruses exist. He agreed. He also called into question DNA, likening it to a hologram. I've since heard that from other sources. Crispr may be similar to gain of function. I've not yet sen any concrete results from it.
For both viruses and DNA we can consider the Hegelian dialect, which is a form of magic. I've written about how magic is being employed on a grand scale to deceive us. This is not new. It goes back thousands of years. The Romans, Greeks, Aztecs, Mayans... all used it.
I recently read an article about Houdini. He explained that much of what the powers that shouldn't be are doing is magic. A lot of that magic is deception which is easily done using technology. Houdini would know, he made a grand living using deception and tech.
As for your topic today, I'm ambivalent. I'm more concerned with day to day issues. I prefer to leave big topics like this to people like you:)
yes crispr is a tech that can be used like gain of function. Here is what is interesting to me, whether viruses "exist" or not there is a technology they are using to insert into out bodies that replicate our DNA, whatever DNA actually is. Once you know what a bacteriophage is you can't deny that viruses exist. The interesting thing about bacteriophages is they fight bacteria as if they were a virus. They can help us or harm us depending on what bacteria they attack. I did a post on bacteriophages versus anit biotics. wackzines use this tech to insert the virus, while they are telling us it is to help our immune systems fight the virus. But, you can simply look online for photos of viruses and you will find them., and I am not talking about computer generated images, CGI.
Terrain and Germ theories are not mutually exclusive, both play a part in our health.
Their Magic. and although I didn't mention the word magic in my post, it is exactly what I am pointing to in the sense of deception as to what this reality is about, why we are here, our true power, and how they mind control us with fear programming, and having us believe that we need to go through suffering and pain to grow, and earn our Spiritual Higher place.
Yes, funny, asking your thoughts is like opening a can of worms. I appreciate your humor, and your sincerity. You handle some topics I am not able to manage, like energy weapon attacks, but I am glad you can figure those things out!
Poetry my dear girl.
An insider said that there is no difference between stage magic and Black Magicks as both use ILLUSION to manipulate their target. How much more 'magical' could it be than to control an entire population with the mere suggestion of words (spellworks)?
Interesting response. Houdini life story always fascinated me. He was obsessed with finding what was beyond this realm. At one point he became hated by every Psychic medium who was trying to make a living contacting the other realm. In his quest to figure out who could literally open a portal in the other dimension he only found lies.
So perhaps the suffering to learn something through a life and another one we will never have a memory is a the lie necessary to cover a grim reality.
Deep questions that I think about too.
yes, deep, difficult and mysterious. As I just answered above to Kyle, This world is run on mind controlling us to perceive what the controllers want us to see and beLIEve. The more they can make us beLIEve in suffering, the more we accept our circumstances.
Excellent observations! You know my stance, just passing thru. .... this evil energy looshing farm of horrors where everything is eat or be eaten. You PAY (attention) with your LIFE! When you get to die, it's Not over....we are energy trapped in biological meatsuits .... energy never dies, it just transmutes.
✨💖✨ Hopefully to a better realm or dreamscape.
You know it! You said in a few sentences what i was pointing to in 100. I think tho that we are way more then these avatars.but we are being held captive by the coding of the avatar
Yes! Our "Avatar" is made up of cells......Thus it has becomes our prism cell.
Sorry, ladies.
Devil's Ass Kicker here (I'd never advocate Le Bastardo).
My view is that our Host (that is what I call our bodies) are the most important thing and if there were any pillow-sitting New Age bullshit LESSON to learn it is: How we treat the bodies we are in (INCLUDING NOT CALLING THEM THE DEGRADING PHRASE: MEAT SUIT {and who the fuck but illuminati scum would have introduced that sick thought?}) is the ONLY THING THAT MATTERS because our bodies are a microcosm/macrocosm equivalence for how we treat others and the physical world.
Honor the host and you wouldn't poison your land and crops with chemicals.
Honor the host and you wouldn't seek out ways to justify suffering because you wouldn't seek out suffering yourself or inflict it on others.
cell (n.)
early 12c., "small monastery, subordinate monastery" (from Medieval Latin in this sense), later "small room for a monk or a nun in a monastic establishment; a hermit's dwelling" (c. 1300), from Latin cella "small room, store room, hut," related to Latin celare "to hide, conceal" (from PIE root *kel- (1) "to cover, conceal, save").
From "monastic room" the sense was extended to "prison room" (1722). The word was used in 14c., figuratively, of brain "compartments" as the abode of some faculty; it was used in biology by 17c. of various cavities (wood structure, segments of fruit, bee combs), gradually focusing to the modern sense of "basic structure of all living organisms" (which OED dates to 1845).
Electric battery sense is from 1828, based on the "compartments" in very early types. The meaning "small group of people working within a larger organization" is from 1925. Cell-body is from 1851, cell-division from 1846, cell-membrane from 1837 (cellular membrane is by 1732), cell wall is attested from 1842.
Case & point ! Concealing & saving Battery/Loosh from the biological cell. This makes sense to me.
"to cover, conceal, save" .... A COVER could simply mean...Meat Suit. Cover for the electrical being. or light.
You know that I'm not picking on you:
What is Light?
What is electrical?
WHERE would those intangibles manifest and how could they interact with anything else if not in this physical plane?
In order to get control of this situation we MUST have precise language that we understand and that makes sense, not just adopt words like meatsuit, light, energy, electricity, consciousness.
An electric eel can generate 600 volts of shock.
The calcualtions I have seen of electrical potential from grounded feet to the nose on the average human is 600 volts.
Why can't we shocke the Illuminutty into another dimension?
Meatsuit defect?
or have they PURPOSELY SHORT CIRCUITED US? (The correct phrase is open circuit).
If we were 'light' and the universe was nothing but light, then what could light do in a sea of light? What purpose would it serve and how could you differentiate YOUR light from any other light? What if you didn't like the frequency of the other light?
Same problem - different dimension.
We've got to get to the basics.
We have to know more about what might be beyond the physical before we are so ready to abandon the physical just because Evil turned it against us.
What if the fuckers are already on the Other Side ready to turn Light into a Weapon?
After all they have tree pruning lasers now.
I do think that honoring the body is key to living in this reality. Avatar to me is the word I use to describe the ingenious creation that houses Who we are. It is this Avatar that those who want to destroy focus on, in trying to understand it, to manipulate it, to break it, to completely control it. While I think this about the AVATAR I also think that who we truly are is using this avatar as it's ship, vessel, to navigate through this reality.
What you are highlighting for us to see is THEIR FOCUS !
If THEY are so bent on keeping our bodies broken and sick and with it our minds (Candace Pert: the BODY is the subconscious mind {I started to type: unconscious again...}) then it is essential that we pay attention to the Host. I use host as the word where someone is taking care of guests rather than host to parasites. Avatar for me has a game-play stain to it but I understand what you are saying based on the Avatars of Krishna, etc.
In that case it would be the housing/host/ SHIP that carries THE GOD.
The Hindi bow "to the god within".
My insistance on focusing on the host is, because, well, I lived in pure physical Hell for most of my life, but as your analogy shows WITHOUT THE SHIP THE FRAGILE ENTITY WOULD BE ADRIFT AT SEA AND AT THE MERCY OF WIND AND WAVES.
That would mean that the ship is pretty damned important.
Yes!,,, I am using AVATAR as was described by the Ancient... and so therefore, without the AVATAR in perfect condition to explore this world We the passenger in the AVATAR are compromised.
I HEAR what you're saying. However, as spiritual beings I believe the carcass we are encased in is the cage for our light /aura/spirit. To me, a cage is a prison CELL. add the light & you have a prism cell.
If the universe is inside us (Micro) then the macro must be suffering as well.
So honoring the host WHILE being poisoned like cockroaches is proving difficult when you get trapped in a loop of trying to make a prison break from the "host" in hell. I don't justify suffering OR inflict it upon others. I'm just doing my "Time".. We are all trapped in this limited-time dimension. If I were feeling well, I may have different thoughts.. Being UNwell makes you traverse down deep dark holes. Although being WELL, gives the illusion of rosy red sunglasses..
Does TIME always tell?
if we are spirit, can anything material harm us except that we believe we are material?
That's IT... We are spirit trapped in matter. We have senses to experience pain. I think the spirit just takes notes.
What is a Spirit? I ask in the essay why would a Spirit need to forget itself.. HOW would that actually be possible? Do you forget yourself? Can you forget yourself? Only if the Avatar has brain damage.. and then what? Where is Spirit when the brain is damaged?
You always answer your own questions as you turn the rubics cube in your mind.
There is a legend that the three years that the "J"esus dropped off the map, he went to China to learn Chi-Gong in order to perform all of the 'miracles'.
Chi-Gong masters have been measured to project their energy 10-feet across a room, they can lift and manipulate the limbs of someone who is paralyzed. The Dim Mak (Death Touch) is real whether performed with a physical strike or Chi.
The human body used to be able to perform insane physical near-impossibilities before the magnetic flux of the planet dropped incredibly low and we were poisoned.
So the 'prison' was never originally a prison, it was made into it.
I had been sick all of my life. When I finally defeated one of those demons, my goal has been to destroy all of them with mere thought.
I stand with You 1000% on THAT statement!
This quantum weirdness is compounded when the concept of nonlocality is combined with string theory. One of the weird results of this combination is the holographic principle. The holographic principle states that the information that determines the behavior of the entire universe works-from the Big Bang to the present-is the result of information existing outside the universe itself. Put yet another way, light energy, interacting with holographic information in a nonlocal two-dimensional realm, results in the continuous holographic projection of the colossal three dimensional world that we call the universe. .......
(CONSCIOUSNES?) Light energy??
I found his HERE:
https://shawnloomis.substack.com/p/5g-internet-of-things It's worth a quick peek! :)
It seems the goal to seek is not coming back
Exactly!! The Egyptians KNEW this.
Yes. To come back means to re enter this reality game. Seems to me their goal is to stop us from ever leaving it
Whoops. Just saw you wrote that after I ranted.
An end result, but as long as the possbility exists to either 'choose' to come back, or to be tricked into coming back, or some sick inevitibility of coming back programmed into the Game, then the Goal - as I see it - is to destroy the Game so that is never an option.
Cheers.
Indigo Girls, “Galileo”
Galileo's head was on the block
The crime was lookin' up the truth
And as the bombshells of my daily fears explode
I try to trace them to my youth
And then you had to bring up reincarnation
Over a couple of beers the other night
And now I'm serving time for mistakes
Made by another in another life time
How long 'til my soul gets it right
Can any human being ever reach that kind of light
I call on the resting soul of Galileo
king of night vision
King of insight
And then I think about my fear of motion
Which I never could explain
Some other fool across the ocean years ago
Must have crashed his little airplane
How long 'til my soul gets it right
Can any human being ever reach that kind of light
I call on the resting soul of Galileo
king of night vision
King of insight
I'm not making a joke
You know me I take everything so seriously
If we wait for the time 'til all souls get it right
Then at least I know there'll be no nuclear annihilation in my life time
I'm still not right
I offer thanks to those before me
That's all I've got to say
'Cause maybe you squandered big bucks in your lifetime
Now I have to pay
But then again it feels like some sort of inspiration
To let the next life off the hook
Or she'll say look what I had to overcome from my last life
I think I'll write a book
How long 'til my soul gets it right
Can any human being ever reach the highest light
Except for Galileo, God rest his soul
King of night vision, king of insight
sounds like Indigo Girls were thinking like me, thanks for sharing the lyrics.. It seems like musicians and artists in general, are inspired by the big questions of this reality
I think there are two types of suffering, that which we take on willingly and that which is thrust upon us by outside forces. I agree that the latter type of suffering is unnecessary, it is a suffering that is created by nefarious actors looking to perpetrate crimes upon humanity. Life is difficult enough without having to deal with bad actors looking to ruin the party.
In regards to the suffering we take on willingly for growth, that is another matter. For whatever reason, this world seems to be designed in such a way that the path to growth often comes through pushing yourself out of your comfort zone in pursuit of a greater reward at the end. I have no problem with this, other than that it is really hard and I think we'd all like to have an 'easy' button sometimes. But there is an undeniable intrinsic value in taking on scary and difficult challenges and coming out the other side stronger.
As an individual, there is a renewed sense of strength and confidence that you feel when you meet a challenge head on. If you look at that on a cosmic level, perhaps the human race, as a whole, is challenged with taking on these monumental tasks over generations in order to grow on a scale that we cannot begin to comprehend.
In such a situation, our personal suffering may indeed seem very unnecessary as we cannot fathom the value of it in the big picture.
Thank you Frater seamus for your comment and thoughts on this. I do agree, that there is suffering that we take on willingly, I know that I appreciate some challenges in life, I want to solve some puzzles, and be a detective, and help someone who is hurting, and I may certainly get hurt in the process. I addressed this to some degree. I think there is a thrill, or a feeling of accomplishment too when we suffer through a situation that we are not comfortable with but learn to command. I feel strongly too that there is definitely suffering forced upon all living beings that is nefarious, I can't help but include all life in noticing this. Think of the factory farmed animals, the devastation to the plants and environment, the abuse of pets, the endless, wars.. well I know you already know...
Focus on the accuracy of the language here.
Taking on suffering willingly?
What living being in this Hell dimension would CHOOSE to do that, whether they were exquated a non-sentient animal or the falsely-boasting Man that thinks it is at the top of the food chain that ends up humus in the clutches of supposedly non-sentient mold?
None.
When my mother's kidneys were caused to fail by nefarious forces at work long before we were born, I took on the path of suffering not as a noble gesture or a method for the bullshit nonsense idea of 'personal growth' but because I fully invested myself into a WAR that was never overtly declared but has been raging for a bare minimum of 5784 years. So the only 'choice' was to throw-in as a combatant, not with the enthusiasm of an amusement part rider but with the full knowledge and intent that anything that I did to defeat the ENEMY was REQUIRED in order to preserve my mother's and my own life in this sickass video game; or... to do nothing like a useless lump of protoplasm and let Evil reign.
So it was never about 'choosing' to 'take on suffering' but an aggressive action to give the enemy what they inflicted on us with interest.
Dan McCarthy always taught that ANY forced choice is EVIL.
To rephrase this situation again (you have to repeat your message at least 3-5 times) I did not WILLINGLY take on suffering, I ENTHUSIASTICALLY jumped into the middle of a firefight in the greatest war in the history of bipedal apes against unfathomable power.
Period.
All other characterizations of the situation are delusion and self-hypnosis and hysterical blindness in order to take the edge off of the terror that I clearly expose in words every chance I get. Which is why I came up with my maxim: "If you say it like it is - then there is no debate."
I thought I pointed to this in my essay. But, here is an example, everyday there are dogs dumped in parks and neighborhoods around here, the owners decided that their "pet" was worthless to them. The dog comes into my yard, and WTF, now I have to take it in and care for it.. I CAN'T NOT do something to help this poor creature... I have JUST chosen to suffer the consequences of this shitshow. I have chosen to care for this neglected and abused animal, I have chosen to give up my freedoms, my income and my home and my time and .... SO I chose to take on this challenge,,, and I am not complaining, this is an example.. I don't have to do this, put myself through this... but I do. Maybe I too am jumping into the fire to save the dignity and love I see in these animals.. it makes me cry!
You know I respect you - therefore I'm not busting your chops when I say:
Be careful with your language:
"I CAN'T NOT do something..."
followed by:
"I don't have to do this..."
Semantically and philosophically and practically those are two different conditions.
One is volitional, the other is survival.
Where my family is concerned it will always be a survival action.
For anything else it will be based on weighing the pros/cons, risks/benefits to see if I WANT to invest in something. That brings us to the two words that define my life:
NEEDS always take precidence over WANTS.
So, to cordially re-examine the situation that you presented ONLY YOU can decide and define if YOU "NEED" to rescue those dogs or you simply WANT to.
I can't impose my values on you or hold you to my standards because of that nifty thing of them being YOUR NEEDs and YOUR WANTs.
Mine differ from yours but that is because they are unique to me.
The only value judgment is what you make for yourself. Just because I would not do what you do, I will not condemn you or expect you to conform to my NEEDS/WANTS because THAT is the very thing that the Controllers inflict on us.
what drives us to want to SELF FLAGELLATE? WHAT DRIVES US TO BE WILLING TO NEED to do something that ends up controlling us. See you are getting at what I am trying to point out.. when I ask do we chose anything in this life? do we have a choice? DO WE HAVE FREE WILL... THERE I SAID IT. Do I save the dogs because it makes me feel better? do I do it because it's written in my script? do I do it because WHY??? because I can't NOT do it? HOW many times have I seen the dogs run around in front of my house and closed my blinds, left the house for the day only to find them sleeping on my porch, or a neighbor texting me several times to help catch them... What is conspiring here???
What fucking lesson is in this? What is it that makes us attach to certain purposes in life? Why do we feel destined to defend something, or create something or expose something, or hate something, or love something, or seek something?
You had to bring up the whipping --- didn't you....?
Martin Luther started as a CATHOLIC PRIEST.
Now Catholics are an interesting animal in that the Jesuits went prospecting around the world trying to steal religious secrets and relics everywhere they went. It is part of Asian martial arts training to work up from light sandbags, to pebbles, to rocks used to beat the body to build up fascia in order to store chi and repel blows. As the training progresses bamboo rods and then metal rods are used so that you can withstand the blows of weapons.
NEVER BREAKING THE SKIN OR IT SLOWS OR STOPS TRAINING.
The goofy Catholic Monks were SELF-FLAGGELATING over invented sins (original or not) as a way of punishing themselves for Wrong Think. They had no idea that the ideas stolen from the Chinee Monks was to develope martial arts POWER.
So, Luther beat himself bloody and threw himself in the snow until his health failed and he said "What the fuck am I doing?" Except in German.
Thus the PROTEST ANT movement was born.
Can you see how, in Continuum, I weave a theme of goofy gonads who are tricked into harming themselves (for "good") when all of this should have been developing martial skills to dispatch The Evil Enemy?
You can see this kind of sickness in the Dan Brown movie Angels and Demons. There was a flagellate who was a key player in the plot of that movie. None of it leads to anything 'good'.
Flash Forward (or backward?) to the Buddhists who like the Hindi and the Yahoodi hold to reincarnation. So they would say that the dogs must have been souls you have interacted with in the Multiverse for countless eons so you are drawn to help them like a Bodhisatva just as they are drawn to you because it is your collective destiny.
Taoists have a version of the Prime Directive where "Do Nothing" exempts them from doing anything but sitting on a bun and contemplating their navel lint while trying to cultivate a Chi orgasm by circulating energy through their motionless bodies.
So many flavors of religion to choose from.
I'll tell you the lesson that I learned in all of my sentence here in Hell:
Hate is more powerful than Love.
To Destroy is infinitely easier than to Create.
It takes enormous, unceasing energy to create, build, fix, but one tiny match to lite a forest. ( I know you like trees).
So why do we push the stone up the hill only for it to roll back down?
BECAUSE IT'S THERE!
No. Because in all of eternity no one ever stopped to break the stone into dust.
Basically what I was thinking only you wrote so much better.
Wonderful topic of discussion. This can take us to many paths no?
Learning the lesson from suffering is especially prominent in Christianity and it shaped the entire narrative of the past 2000 years left and right. And may be there are pre-christian cultures and others that pushed it but that is more focused on teaching discipline instead. I guess this is a broad topic too, because somethings in life do not teach lessons at all, quite the opposite they create monsters instead. Just like you said Kara……what the sexually abused child can learn from this? That is an example of horrific lesson right? On the other hand perhaps some light “suffering” could help to shape up an individual character toward certain disciplines in life or appreciate a way of life?
When I used to run marathons and train pounding miles after miles, people asked me often why would I want to put my body through that “suffering”. Well that is a good question…..but I remember that all that training got me to appreciate other simple things in life because it placed life on a different perspective.
Coming back from a 10 miles run in the cold made me really appreciate the warm shower and a warm house and all around that I was fortunate I could do that compared to those who could not because they had health or mobility issues. Appreciation for life after suffering? It gave things we get for granted in life a special value.
That is much different of course than tragedies life has for many that happen often to rule our lives. What a person is suppose to learn from being raped for example?
It is definitely a control narrative that puts us in a special place. We are set in place in a non quantifiable time zone (our life) of ACCEPTANCE.
Yes I see many paths coming into view as I read responses. Thank you for your imput and observations about life, especially the cruelest supposed lessons. I feel very strongly as you mentioned that this is a control narrative, inducing tremendous fear, and having us beLIEve that we are weak, and very bad naturally. I wonder at this point if the scales were balanced and life was more harmonious would humans Naturally choose paths towards imbalance or would we start thriving.. big question. I feel most of the imbalance and pain is forced upon us causing all the disharmony and suffering in life.
to help us learn and grow. we are here to be tested.
may I ask your thoughts on who we are that we need to learn and grow, Why would we be tested, especially in the cruelest of ways? thanks for your comment
that is far too big an answer. if i reduce it down near to absurdity, i’d say it has to do with spiritual evolution. in some very ancient faiths, it was said in the world before this, that emotions energy in motion were very different, less intense and easier to manage, here for example we are to learn to manage our emotions. if we pass this test, we can go on.
Epicuris, born 341 BC died 270 BC.
Is god willing to prevent Evil but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able but not willing?
Then he is Malevolent.
Is god both able and willing?
Then whence cometh Evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
THEN WHY CALL HIM GOD?
He summed it up eloquently almost 2300 years ago, yet somehow those who manipulate have still got most of us confused and beLIEving in this superior being. I guess they don't teach philosophy in Theology school. they tell us things like ,, Define Good? They point to perspective and how things are relative... that it is our own perception that is making us see evil in this world.
Voltaire said: You MUST bet - you are in the Game.
His dilemma was that he was convinced that God was a trickster bad ass. But the options were: eternity in Hell or eternity with a trickster badass, so he came down on the side of God.
The Gnostics said that what was called Yawveh is the chief Archon Yaaldabaoth = The Child of Kaos that is a demented alien mind parasite.
Voltaire (no doubt) was initiated in the Mysteries which is why his conclusion was so close to the gnostics.
But when you consider what I was just thinking about yesterday: And on the 7th Day God Rested - we have a similiar mythos in the Olympian Gods that needed Ambrosia and Nectar and did get tired and did get old.
So, in the words of Arnold Black Mule Driver from the movie Predator:
"If it bleeds - it can be killed."
My version runs like this: If it is a trickster parasite = Kyll it!
Christians would often ask me: "Why do you think you are here, then?"
I would reply: "To be punished."
"But you don't believe in God. What are you being punished for?"
"Something I haven't done - yet."
Something I haven't done yet... LOL... except that this is the goal NOW. to KNOW what we are going to do, and think, in every moment. They've been training us up for this all along. perfect mind controlled servants.
The Buddhamind is in The Moment. Because the past is gone and the future hasn't arrived. I spend nearly ALL of my time in the future referenced from the past because otherwise there is no SURVIVAL in the now.
Mistakes and successes of the past are our foundation for what we do next or decisions that we make in the now to let us get through this episode of the movie CUBE without being turned into fertilizer.
A Flatworm has no capacity to learn it only reacts to stimulus.
You can observe flatworms in their natural habitat on a recliner sipping a beer and eating a pizza in front of the superbowl game.
You are punished for fun. Not your fun. The fun and ego boost of some other entity.
you have such a clear way of thinking of things and making it clear to us.
M*A*S*H television show was quite popular. It was designed for one purpose alone: to instill a sense that SUFFERING IS NOBLE.
It is the savior myth.
Of course there is always the cruel trick: You CAN'T pay for your own sins so someone or something has to do it for you but you sure can be made to regret those sins that have supposedly been paid for.
And the dogs think they have it bad.
Yes my whole point.. SUFFERING IS NOBLE = BULL SHIT.
BTW, who coined Bullshit? Don't we use that stuff to grow our gardens?
Bull shit is powerful isn't it? Grows THEIR STORY through us.
Little Known Facts: Fresh manure is full of pathogens and can BURN plants if you put it directly on them. Manure HAS to be PROPERLY composted, brought up to a high internal temperature so kill the parasites and other bugs and break down the ammonia that can poison your plants.
NOTHING on this planet is EVER what it seems or has been portrayed to be.
On the flip side:
Left in a field for some time splats of cow manure can become as hard as a dinner plate to be used for hours of fun by low I.Q. farm dwellers as frisbees.
Wow—you really asked the right questions here, and poked a hole in just about every half-baked explanation for what our ‘purpose’ for living could be.
Like all great pieces of writing, I’m left with more questions than answers (about the world around me, of course—you made your point very clearly). Thank you for writing this.
I just had to laugh... thank you.. isn't that the truth.. the more we poke the more we come up with WHAT???... from some of the responses... I have another post brewing.. as all thinkers do eh? Thank you Melissa!!
Haha, absolutely. Looking forward to the next one!
What makes us so unique to be configured as we are. Our role vs plants and animals, and inanimate objects for that matter. All on this earth, even corporal beings off this earth have roles. Perhaps we are the hands of the Creator. Collective energy necessary to manipulate the physical world. To what ends? As you ask. Why?
It’s a personal journey. Each entity is faced with unique challenges of its role and environment. Each response selects a different course which is either correct or needing further correction. And how would we know to correct without some form of feedback? Is that pain or tragedy in extreme situations?
I’ve pondered this stuff my entire life. I’ve even questioned the Creator but I think I’ve had enough experiences now to know that there is organization and communication guided by something not adequately defined by our human frame of reference. Call it what you will. My sister calls it God. She makes a compelling case based on here life choices and experience. And I’m ok with that. I made my own choices based on feeling and intuition early in life. Always listening, studying, observing the various feedbacks I received due to my actions. Adjusting accordingly. As I aged my thoughts sought validation in the physical realm of science and engineering. Working on machines of immense power for both good and bad. Dual use technology so to say. Technology I enabled but did not have any control of its end use. Always questioning why and knowing there was some purpose to me that was not being fulfilled by those wondrous machines. But what?
Seeking purpose was rekindled when I dealt with cancer at mid-life. After that experience I knew I had not found my purpose yet. But then I also realized I may never truly find the real reason. It may be that my mere presence has affected or enabled some action or entity to fulfill its role. Collective action for whatever purpose. And I guess as long as I continue to be driven to find purpose and act in a helpful non-ego driven manner, able to impart insight and wisdom on those I encounter, then that may be enough. A time here not wasted. And I’m ok with that too.
thank you for sharing a bit of your life story Mike, and your struggles and your intuitive ability or even your struggles to come to terms. I agree with you that there is something more to life and us then just randomness and purposelessness. I agree that intuitively we KNOW when something is right and something is not right. This is the exact reason why for me suffering is not noble or necessary for growth. My thoughts and my observations lead to a force that is beyond reasonable, is working here to keep us from our Truth and our possibility. As I stated in the essay, there is a difference between overcoming obstacles and dealing with cause and effect, there is suffering that just comes with the territory. Then there is another kind of suffering that seems to purposefully be inflicted on all life. This is what I am pointing to, this is what I want to come to terms with. Why does disease of the magnitude of cancer have to be a lesson for learning? I wish you or anyone else could have been spared that, and I commend you for your efforts to overcome it. My brother and my mother in law both lost the battle, To me both were amazing people in this world, they were gifts in my life.. I wrote about my brother... maybe I will post it, I can't imagine what a little child has done to deal with these kinds of suffering... and the parents and loved ones in their life.. I think you have said something really wonderful actually in your thought that your mere presence was all that was needed to make a difference in this world. I know that is the case with my brother and my Mother in law! The best to you! Thanks for sharing!
True that pain and suffering is encountered in the natural progression of life. Kind of comes with the territory. However I reject the idea that it is necessary as prescribed by any religion or societal dictate. These are nothing more than manmade interpretations for control and power. I think we can minimize through intuition, alertness, selflessness, aware learning, but you ask an important question that would call to question what we are often led to believe. Why does it take unknown eons of rebirth to figure out? It’s a question deeper than here’s your spiritual and material construct as best as we are able to intuit individually or learn from ancient texts or wisemen. Makes you question absolutely everything. And I mean absolutely everything.
My materially trained mind would surmise that the Creator is infinity and you can never attain infinity. No matter how hard or how long you try. But Pareto would say we can get substantially there without infinite power and wisdom. But to your question again, are there entities that may go the extra effort to get closer to the Creator? Probably. But I’m open to suggestion.
Enjoy your holiday. BTW Jackson Brown Running On Empty is a go to album if I’m feeling nostalgic for my college days. When I was younger I couldn’t wait to get older. But I always bristle when someone calls me sir because I still feel young. Despite my declining physical strength, the only thing that makes me feel old is trying to understand current generation thinking and why they act as they do and come to such ridiculous conclusions. Just reinforces that I am from another era that has passed and they’re going to have to relearn past truisms in their own way. So back to suffering again.
Sorry responding so late, I do not get notifications, and I just saw this!
Yes, that is my stance, that suffering is not necessary to learn lessons or to grow, especially not under the circumstances dealt to us in this world, by governments (govern the mind) and religion. I do question absolutely everything! MOre to come, as I find a way to communicate my thoughts. Thank you for your participation and comments on this subject! Oh and Mike, yes, I love that album, and me too, listening brings me back to college days... and actually High school too. I not only feel young. I am still that young and enthusiastic, so I thought, free spirit, wanting to explore. Hey I can still climb mts and last summer I built a pergola from scratch, my own design, cutting all the pieces and cementing, and building the deck... maybe I'll share that next on a lighter post!
I love pergolas. An under-utilized garden feature now days. Same for trellis’.
I am under it quite a bit, lol built a fire pit in the middle of it, but my aim was to have a place where I could sit out while it rained.